What are the chances of this game having an Esports scene? Are the devs supportive of that at all?


  • Founders

    Just wondering what are the thoughts of people and the dev's on if this game has any potential to have an Esports scene, much like Pubg and Fortnite.

    Its 2018 and video games are becoming more and more competitive, single players and same ole same ole multiplayer just aint cutting it anymore.

    Any chance this has any plans to do something with Esports?


  • Founders

    I really hope not. Too many games force it, and there's always a divide between what casual and competitive players want from a game. They should just focus on making a really solid game.


  • Founders

    I just wanna point out there's nothing competitive about Fortnite. Yes, the e-sports scene is big, but only because fortnite's popularity right now is immense.
    Once people get bored of fortnite, e-sports will vanish from it. Take a game like counter strike. How has the e-sports events and community grown steadily since years? because it's balanced for competitive play.


  • Founders

    Oh i fully agree that fortnite scene is based on its popularity and not actually proper/balanced game mechanics, but at the same time, we have tons of games out there for the casual gamer, besides overwatch/csgo a new genre like the BR, i feel like the only game to take srsly right now is pubg or h1z1, im wondering if this game has any potential to cater to the Esports scene.

    BR is a very competitive game mode all in itself, i think partially why it is so popular right now, we have juggernauts like cod and battlefield franchises adding it into their games, im sure one of them will have some sort of Esports scene, and im just wondering if this game can even accomplish anything like that with everything its got going on already, especially if performance is as good as its being advertised.


  • Founders

    @hypernt-0001 Problem is BR has so much things which are completely incompatible with e-sports. The high amount of players per game (makes LANs really complicated to do). The game mode itself: in order to win, you have to stay alive. The winning strategy would be to avoid as much fights as possible until the end, and no one wants to watch people camping and staying safe. Which brings us to the last point, BR isn't a great genre to watch as a spectator, fortnite might be but PUBG-like BR's ?

    However, it doesn't mean BR's can't be competitive, and devs certainly mentioned wanting to make their game as balanced as they can to have that happen. Skill ranks for example are confirmed.


  • Founders

    @Drizzle-0001 Yeah i agree that certain things of BR esports scene can be offputting, but at the same time it depends what the game allows in terms of settings... Most leagues do kill points, which entices teams to get kills, usually, if you watch any pubg the kills usually what separates the teams from 1st-3.

    I think as the genre itself evolves, so will the Esports scene, and so will the viewers, they will learn to understand what they are watching...

    Pubg Esports have had some great moments, have been very exciting games, but lot of factors depend on that, including what leagues do for settings and what the game allows.

    I dont think fortnite is fun to watch at all, i think having a TPP game in Esports is absolutely disgusting as a spectator watching people hiding behind walls yet both players can see each other over the wall...yuck, but thats just my opinion.

    I dont know if this game will do it, but i know battlefield or cod should be able to hit the Esports scene, they certainly got the money and advertisements to do it so i guess we will see who can take advantage of it.


  • Founders

    I personally do not want to see a eSports scene, I do however want to see a competitive scene (clan vs clan in some way) and community run events


  • Admin

    Hi,

    So before I start with this, I'd like to point out that this is just my opinion and how I personally feel about an esports scene, I don't make the decisions about anything like this, but it's my personal experience on it so far.

    I'm a huge esports fan, if it's played competitively, I've probably watched it, played it, been to a tournament for it. However, I do agree that not every game should be made an esport. "Competitive" and "esports" are very different things that sometimes I feel people struggle to distinguish between.

    With a lot of you here having already come from other BR games, I'm sure a lot of you are aware of some of the issues that BR games run into when trying to be viewed competitively. esports has to be watchable and accessible, BR's can struggle with this at times. It's difficult to have a constant understanding of everything that's going on at the map in any one time. This makes pushing an esports scenes for other BR's can be very difficult, as it relies on it's viewership to truly exist.

    Since joining the team here in the office, I've been thinking about the esports scene and how we could try do things differently, I would personally love to see an esports scene for this, but I also don't want to FORCE an esports scene for it. I've spent a lot of time watching videos of other BR's and thinking about how we could improve the spectator experience, the experience for the casters, and also most importantly, the experience of the players. The players competitive experience should never be compromised in order for other people to spectate easier. I have my ideas, but at the moment that's all they are. I would love to see this become truly competitive and also an incredibly tense and hype situation in which you can follow your favourite players and really feel involved and invested into the rounds, like people rooting for their favourite teams.

    I think the shorter answer, is that Mavericks is definitely competitive, you can be a better player than somebody else, and you will be rewarded for taking the time to learn and practice. Will it be an esport? That's too difficult to say right now, but I will be using my free time to try and help figure out the best way we can work towards that in a meaningful way for the players and viewers, without just throwing money at a tournament bracket and hoping it becomes esport.


  • Founders

    I'm glad it's on your radar, Sam and I am also very glad that you have recognised that some games are forcing the esports agenda - or pandering to the professional players.

    I follow a few pro PUBG players and take an interest in tourneys on twitch etc. But all these pro players seem to do is moan about the game mechanics. They seem to want to change the game into something else in the name of competitive play.

    I think there are two types of issue that it breaks down to: removing ALL RNG*; and other "strange" game mechanics. Let me share an example of each from the PUBG scene:

    RNG

    Hard circle shifts. This is where you get a circle shrink right up close to the existing edge of the circle. This means that players might get lucky and find themselves with not needing to move at all (or a very easy rotation) vs having to trek half way across the map.

    To some extent, I can see where the pro's are coming from. However, is it really that bad? To become good at a game you have to master all aspects of the gameplay. Sometimes you have to sit, wait and defend your position. Sometimes you have to move, dodge and attack.

    You can choose which tactics you prefer. If you like camping, you can go center circle and might have to move once or twice. If you prefer something more aggressive / risky, you can "keep your back to the blue" and hunt down the other players at the expense of being constantly on the move.

    The Pan!

    More recently, there have been calls to remove the pan (and all other malee weapons) from competitive play.

    To me this is just plain wrong.

    The pan is part of the game. Yes, it's totally bulletproof. No, real life pans are not totally bullet proof. But no one ever said PUBG was aiming for 100% realism! It's a little bit of fun, adds some character to the game and in all real-terms - doesn't really effect gameplay all that much. Yeah, sometimes you hit a pan and sometimes you get hit in the pan - and it literally saves your ass. But that's just something that makes PUBG... PUBG!

    Finally

    I want to play the same game as the pro's. Part of the enjoyment of watching them play is the idea that I can go and play the same game with the same settings.

    esports enhancements to a game should be based around providing good access for spectating, casting, recording and replaying. Not drastic modifications of the gameplay.


    RNG = Random number generator. This is a catch all phrase for anything in the game which means that the "pot luck" of the random aspects of the game favour one player over another - rather than skill.


  • Founders

    I don't even want to contemplate what trying to organize competitive events for 1000 player BR looks like.


  • Founders

    @xer0h0ur-0001 said in What are the chances of this game having an Esports scene? Are the devs supportive of that at all?:

    I don't even want to contemplate what trying to organize competitive events for 1000 player BR looks like.

    I dont think just because a game can run at 1000 players that you need to run 1000 player events... I think doing 100 man servers for Esports would be the norm as it is in PUBG who have advanced pretty high in their Esports category and is probably the only BR game right now that has actual skillful mechanics that an Esports game should have.

    I hope that this game at least understands that competition keeps the game fresh and here is what i mean by that.

    You need to have some sort of MMR system, pubg had this very earily on and you would run into a lot of similar skilled players and so the games would be very competitive. They since have removed MMR and now leaderboards and overall public games are a joke and the game struggles because of this. There is also, or at least was almost no reason to grind and or play public matches, recently we got some missions to do, but before that it was just BP(in game currency) that we gained.

    I want this game to constantly separate the players who are willing to become the best or top tier vs casuals, thats one of the problems currently in BR games.

    Its 2018, and with Esports being on the rise i just struggle to take online games serious for extended periods of time if i know that there is no future for me to ever partake in some high tier competition if i ever become really good at the game, that all there ever will be is just same old same old public matches.


  • Founders

    @hypernt-0001 Sorry but I don't agree with you at all. I was never a high level competitive gamer although I tried when I was younger before e-sports was an actually viable career. Back in the days of Counter-Strike 1.5/1.6 and in the early days of Counter-Strike: Source. I played in several tournaments around the U.S.

    The actual base game itself should never be influenced by competitive/professional gaming. That is one of the few things CS got right and why its remained a popular competitive game for such a long time. The competitive and casual game play is separated from one another. Competitive professional play is governed by one set of rules while the casual is more open and relaxed. BR has yet to make this distinction and a lot of it has to do with the fact that there aren't private servers where the users have control over how matches are governed/set up.

    So basically what I am saying here is that the game itself should never be balanced because of the top 1%. This is why private servers should be a thing for those people and for competitive leagues to exist in their own ecosystem.


  • Founders

    @xer0h0ur-0001 said in What are the chances of this game having an Esports scene? Are the devs supportive of that at all?:

    @hypernt-0001 Sorry but I don't agree with you at all. I was never a high level competitive gamer although I tried when I was younger before e-sports was an actually viable career. Back in the days of Counter-Strike 1.5/1.6 and in the early days of Counter-Strike: Source. I played in several tournaments around the U.S.

    The actual base game itself should never be influenced by competitive/professional gaming. That is one of the few things CS got right and why its remained a popular competitive game for such a long time. The competitive and casual game play is separated from one another. Competitive professional play is governed by one set of rules while the casual is more open and relaxed. BR has yet to make this distinction and a lot of it has to do with the fact that there aren't private servers where the users have control over how matches are governed/set up.

    So basically what I am saying here is that the game itself should never be balanced because of the top 1%. This is why private servers should be a thing for those people and for competitive leagues to exist in their own ecosystem.

    Using counter strike as an example for casual players is probably the worst example anyone could have ever given... That entire game is built upon it being an Esport, no one comes in and says " boy i sure would love to pub csgo today", no, you would say "lets do some 5v5 matchmaking, i want to reach global elite" or something along those lines. That entire game from all the way back in the day is made for Esports and thats the only reason a game like that is even successful, we sure dont play it for its intricate gameplay or its awesome graphics..........

    While not all games can have an Esports scene, most games could with dev's backing/support. Call of duty Esports scene is a joke, but when call of duty 4 came out, and the devs provided Mod tools for players to make their own mods, players quickly formed a mod called "pro mod" which was made for Esports and which would be top tier if applied today.

    So yes, not all BR games can be played competitively, or rather deserve to be, but with proper support from the devs and the player base, there is a possibility.

    Times change, and watching Esports on twitch and hell even on TV these days you can watch Esports, its evolving very fast and having that aspect for those who want to compete should be nothing but positives.


  • Founders

    In my opinion BR in its current form really doesn't lend itself to being a spectator game.

    The majority of the game is spent looting and running for the zone with sparse action. It only heats up in the later circles as everyone is forced together.
    The idea of competitive play is to win and you don't win by seeking out constant confrontation. You win by surviving and to do that you need to minimise risk, picking your battles and only exposing yourself when absolutely necessary. An exiting life is a short life.

    For a spectator, a lot of 'downtime' and passive play isn't exiting. There's also the issue of the game being so big that you can't constantly monitor 'the whole game'. You're going to miss a lot of action that's going on in tandem with another location.

    Personally, I don't care much for spectating such events. I might find it interesting to watch how a 'pro' plays from time-to-time to pick up some tactics etc but yeah, it's not for me. I don't have a problem with the devs aiming to support such a scene if they want, it's great for publicity and can become a significant revenue stream for them (which is good for the games longevity).
    But if they are to do it successfully they will need to figure out a way to fix the problems with the current BR spectator scene, I'm not sure how one would approach such a task however... Smaller initial zones, CS:GO style 'you have x points, buy a balanced starting loadout' in order to speed up the initial looting phase etc... idk? The devs current ideas of mid-game distractions and 'objective' areas that are designed to draw players together into confrontations could perhaps be enough but I'm not sure.


  • Founders

    @hypernt-0001 You're actually way off the mark. There are far more casual counter strike players than there are competitive players. You're also conflating in game competitive play with actual professional league competitive play. They aren't the same nor are they governed by the same set of rules either for match play. CSGO to be specific has several game modes aside from comp and there are far more players in those game modes than in comp. That is without even taking into account community servers with their own game modes like bhop, surf, modded deathmatch etc. etc. and it all goes back to what I said in the first place...the game has always been built with modding and private/community servers in mind so that the playerbase can do as they want and control the server side aspect of competitive gaming. No BR game will ever facilitate league or professional esport gameplay without it.


  • Founders

    @anunnaki

    My only concern with this game which will get flushed out on release I'm sure is how big the map is. For me, PUBG wasn't very fun to watch competitively but the game is extremely popular. On the other hand Realm Royale was very fun to watch, especially its first tournament, but the game is on a negative slope for current players atm.

    I can't wait to see how this game plays so we players can explore ideas and get excited about its future.


  • Founders

    If it happens, it happens.